What do you think? Gatsby becomes even more intriguing! How is Fitzgerald (or Nick, depending on how you look at it) choreographing the reader's experience? What about Gatsby as a lens (what are we learning about Nick and others by the ways in which they see Gatsby?)? What else?
We see everything through Nick's eyes. When he is upset with Gatsby, we see Gatsby in a different light then when Nick is more intrigued by him. When Nick thinks something is strange, we begin to think it strange too and so on. This makes it hard for the reader to come up with our own opinions. At the same time, Gatsby IS an intriguing person and he deals with things in a strange way, such as having Jordan ask Nick to set up a date between him and Daisy. With or without Nick's narrations, I think we would see Gatsby as an intriguing man because that is exactly what he is.
ReplyDelete-Bianca
I agree with Bianca that we can't really form out own opinions about Gatsby because of the constant shift in Nick's, and therefore our view of him. I think we also learn a lot about Nick from how he thinks about Gatsby. We learn that he is impatient, and doesn't like to be left hanging, because he gets angry at Gatsby when he is told that Jordan has something to talk to him about. He also is open to new ideas, because although he has heard tons of rumors about Gatsby, he accepts each new tale with a grain of salt and doesn't even truly believe when Gatsby himself tells him.
ReplyDeleteBianca makes a good point. Fitzgerald wants the reader to learn about Gatsby at a reasonably slow pace. We essentially learn no more than Nick does throughout the story. In chapter 4, I think both Nick and the reader are beginning to come into their own. Until then, we've been in the dark as to the real goings-on around the Eggs, but now both Nick and the reader are starting to settle down into familiarity with the surroundings. We also learn that most of Gatsby's "friends" really don't know much about him, which is the way Gatsby seems to like it. We also learn that Nick appears to be a much more traditionally normal person than Gatsby. Yet, we also see that Nick doesn't want to get too close to Gatsby for some reason. He doesn't want to get involved in any business opportunities which Gatsby offers to him, nor does Nick seem to care what Gatsby does for work. He's always getting strange phone calls from "Detroit" or "Philadelphia," but Nick never once asks what it is he's doing. Gatsby truly is a man of mystery.
ReplyDeleteBy looking through Nick's lens we learn know no more about Gatsby than Nick does, just like Bianca and Jacob said. We are finally getting an idea of who Gatsby is. What's great about seeing through Nick's lens is we know what he knows, but we are allowed to have our own opinions. We know that Nick thinks that Gatsby's story are improbable, but that doesn't mean we have to regret it too. This chapter wasn't just good for learning about Gatsby, we also learn more about Nick. We get a better idea of Nick, how he doubts Gatsby's stories and how he's more "traditional"(as Jacob said) than Gatsby. And although we "learn" a lot about Gatsby, it's all up in the air as to whether not we should believe it. Gatsby life story is unknown. I think that's how he wants it to be and that's how i think it will be kept.
ReplyDelete-Jack Corcoran
See if you can manage to refer to specifics from the books sometimes, rather than just to your classmates... --EC
DeleteIn this chapter, I definitely see Gatsby's character becoming more complex. Fitzgerald tells us about Gatsby through Nick's experiences with Gatsby and his thoughts about what is going on at the time. This let's us see into Nick's character as well. For example, when Gatsby is telling Nick how he was educated at Oxford, Nick says "He looked at me sideways - and I knew why Jordan Baker believed he was lying". To me, this shows that Nick is easy to persuade, and quick to come to assumptions. The way that Fitzgerald describes him saying this does not necessarily show that Gatsby was lying, but Nick is quick to believe Jordan and assume that he was not telling the truth. We also see a deeper side to Gatsby - he loved Daisy Buchanon and still does. To me, in the first few chapters he seems like the type of person that isn't affected by others that easily, just by the ostentatious way that he lives and talks about things, but Daisy is his "weak spot"... something that can really get to him.
ReplyDelete-Becca Robinson
One thing that I think is really interesting about the narration of this book is that we never really see Gatsby through our own eyes. Because Nick, the narrator, is also a character, everything we know about all the characters, especially Gatsby, comes with his opinions and his bias. And the one time we aren't seeing Gatsby through Nick is when we are learning about his past with Daisy. And that we see through Jordan. This kind of gives the book an impression of being gossip. Everything we hear about Gatsby is second hand, and it makes me wonder whether or not this is true and whether or not I would like him if we read about him first hand. This is a really interesting way to write the book and I like it a lot. It makes it seem more real.
ReplyDeleteI think that Fitzgerald creates the persona of Gatsby before the character itself. In the sense that leading up to chapter four we know nothing about Gatsby other than fictional rumors and stories about him. Not until four chapters into the book do we start to hear about Gatsby's character, and how he has a longing to be with Daisy. But even in chapter four we still know very little about Gatsby's character and a lot of the stuff that Gatsby tells us seems to be either false or not the whole truth.
ReplyDeleteCorey Grill
The reader's experience continues to stream right along with Nick's, just as we saw in the previous chapter when Nick found out that the man he was speaking to at Gatsby's party was Gatsby. The reader, however, may note things intended to be seen about Gatsby that are not physically written out as part of Nick's perspective. Personally, as I found out more about Gatsby from Jordan's story, I felt as if I knew Gatsby's character less than I did before; in reading about his unusual way of planning things around how he wanted to come in contact with Daisy, for example, it seemed like it was being revealed that there was more to him than just excessive "old sport!"s.
ReplyDelete-Amanda
I think the initial elusiveness of Gatsby makes his character seem more exciting throughout the rest of the book, even once we get to know him- although I'm on a later chapter and we still don't know that much about Gatsby. By introducing him as mysterious, F. Scott Fitzgerald gives him an aura of coolness that remains, at least for me. Well played, Fitzgerald. Well played.
ReplyDeleteWe learn more and more that Nick frowns upon the upper-class, modern lifestyle that he so frequently takes part in. When Gatsby leaves to talk on the phone, Wolfsheim talks about Gatsby essentially compliments him to no end. Nick responds with very little enthusiasm, showing that he isn't quite as impressed with Gatsby as Wolfsheim is. Gatsby seems to put on a facade of lavishness with no care for anything in the world, and I think this is something that we would see with or without Nick's narrations.
ReplyDeleteOur perception of Gatsby depends somewhat on Nick's, and one specific example is Nick's descriptions of Gatsby's smiles. When Gatsby is first introduced, Nick describes his smile as "one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it," and even when Nick is doubtful of Gatsby's honesty about his past, his smile is described as "comprehending Montenegro's troubled history and sympathizing with the brave struggles of the Montenegrin people." I found this image especially interesting and indicative of Nick's fascination despite his skepticism. However, later on in the chapter, when Gatsby is apologizing for being so elusive, Nick writes that he resists Gatsby's smile--Nick's shift in perception influences the reader's view. It is not until after Jordan has told the story about Daisy that Nick views him favorably again (probably since his patience and timidness humanizes him), and from that point on, Gatsby is described in better terms.
ReplyDeleteEveryone has mentioned that we only see Gatsby through Nick's point of view, which is what Mr. Colburn already said. I think the way we actually see Gatsby is a much deeper question, from this chapter I've gotten that we are supposed to view Gatsby as a man of capital. He's traveling to rich places, getting calls from locations which also support this statement and the incident with the speeding ticket also proves he has power. I think Nick, or Fitzgerald wants us to detest his richness in the slightest bit, but also be pulled toward the character and what the rest of the book holds for him.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Gatsby is the character the story is named after, he is the character that stands on his own the least. We are constantly depending on the other characters to show us how to react to Gatsby. During the whole episode in Gatsby's car, when he is explaining his actions in WW1, our opinions change almost every other fact, as nick weighs the possibility of each one. We are still not convinced of how real Gatsby is until Nick passes his final judgement. We learn about characters and how welcoming or gullible or understanding based on how they fall under Gatsby's spell or not.
ReplyDelete-- Gabby St Pierre
Chapter Four was very crucial for the reader and their understanding of the Gatsby as a character. Prior, to Chapter Four we had heard many rumors regarding Jay Gatsby however many people didn't believe them. During the chapter Gatsby explains to Nick that he was educated at Oxford, which was a family tradition. He also enlightened Nick that he was a war hero in Montenegrin and had a coin to prove it. This chapter helped Nick and the reader realize the legitimacy of Gatsby's character.
ReplyDeleteBy connecting every character he meets to Gatsby, it gives Gatsby this surreal existence that is rumored and gossiped about by many. It's funny that everything Nick does brings him back to Gatsby, and I think is meant to show that the two have some very bizarre relationship. I think that the most interesting aspect of chapter four was that Gatsby felt the need to explain/prove himself to Nick by showing him solid examples of his accomplishment. My question is, was this done to prove the lies and rumors wrong, or to simply back up a lie he has created. Either way, I am curious to see what happens and love that this is one of those plots where all of the characters are some how related (kind of on that six degrees of separation theme)
ReplyDeleteNick choreograph's the reading experience in a way that highlights how suspect Gatsby seems. It seems like Gatsby is making things up, only because Nick gives us that sense. As a character, he can interpret things however he wants, and because he sees himself as a model of purity and truth, perhaps one way he maintains this is by assuming the worst of other people. Perhaps the evidence that Gatsby provides, even though coming off as desperate - is not desperate because he's lying, but instead because of all the weight and baggage that come's along with being rich and surrounded by people predisposed to gossip; in other words, maybe it's a shield, but Nick(or the Author) certainly interprets it from a more pessimistic, negative angle.
ReplyDeleteAs people have said, we only see Gatsby however Nick, at the time, sees Gatsby. But this isn't a bad thing, in fact I find it preferable. If we were allowed to make our own opinions of Gatsby then we would pick one and stick with it, regardless of what he (Gatsby or Fitzgerald) might do to try and change it. We would read through the whole book thinking Gatsby is only selfish or only snobbish or only amazing. And although he has those qualities, and more, he isn't just those qualities. By changing Nick's opinion of him we get to see more than one side of Gatsby which forces us to think of him differently which allows us to gain a better understanding of him. It reduces the tunnel vision we get when trying to form an impression from a new character, which is a good thing.
ReplyDelete-Sam P
I believe that this chapter is very interesting because we finally see the romanticized figure of Gatsby in a more down to earth sort of way. Due to the fact that we see Gatsby through the eyes of Nick, we learn that some of his personality is based on lies, and some is based on fact. For instance, he states that is he from the midwest, and he grew up in San Francisco, which makes no sense. The fact that fitzgerald gives us Nick's point of view throughout our first true introduction with Gatsby, provides us with knowledge that may not have been included otherwise. A different narrator may not of questioned his true backround, which led to the exposure of a lie.
ReplyDelete-Sam KW
Fitzgerald choreographing the reader’s experience by letting us see the whole picture of the characters feelings, but Fitzgerald wants us to feel sympathy to the character feelings he describes how Daisy and Gatsby were in love “The officer looked at Daisy while she was speaking in a way that every young girl wants to be looked at some time…” In Nick point’s of view you can read his feelings toward Gatsby or Daisy or Tom or any other character. Jordan is a cheater in her golf games but, Nick portrays her in sweet gently way, because he likes her. As reading Gatsby point of view on characters he makes them feel important but with Tom he fakes his attitude because he is married to Daisy.
ReplyDelete-Shira Hartman
As Gatsby gradually becomes more and more committed to getting Daisy into his life, we the readers are also taken in (through Nick's narration). The façade that Gatsby has built up over the years is slowly being chipped away, and we are there to witness it happen. Meanwhile, we are also starting to get a better sense of Nick and Gatsby's relationship too- Gatsby uses Nick to get closer to Daisy, but I'm a little unsure about what Nick gets out of their friendship- maybe social connections at parties, or even a love for Gatsby?
ReplyDeleteSince the title of the book is, 'the Great Gatsby', the story must be about Gatsby (oh well of course). But, due to we see Gatsby through Nick's eyes, how we see Gatsby highly depends on Nick's feeling toward Gatsby. Nick thinks Gatsby is making things up, and so do we think Gatsby is making things up.
ReplyDeleteJonathan Oh
Through Nick's eyes we can see that he is having a hard time believing what Gatsby says. Mr. Wolfsheim is able to put Gatsby in a positive light of almost greatness. It doesn't make sense when Gatsby says he is from the Midwest, but that he was actually raised in San Francisco. It is as if the Great Gatsby is starting to fall back on Earth.
ReplyDelete